Triumph of Chaos (CoA)

[Strategos]

Thanks.
Dziękujemy za informację

[D Dockter]

Also, if anyone would be interested in writing a piece on the Polish participation in the conflict for the Triumph of Chaos Players' Guide, let me know. We do pay a small fee for each article.

[Spooky:)]

Hi i sended you a private message.

[Hudson]

Comrades Guide juz sie drukuje, zawierac bedzie 80 dodatkowych zetonow.

[Nico]

Może pare komentarzy z BGG .

Zaczniemy od najlepszego ;D !!

"When, near the end of the game, I found my thought processes going like this: "I'm going to make this move, because that will involve learning the least amount of new rules," I knew the game was in trouble."

"too much overchromed and ahistorical setup for Finland (The finish civil war was over then the game starts and the red fins never had a chance without russian bolshevik support, which they no longer got after 'Brest Litovsk'"

"Way too much chrome. I'm not against complexity when it is called for, but at some level it just drains the fun out of a game. Now I'm far from an expert on the Russian Civil War, but what exactly did the 18 minor factions (besides the Reds and the Whites) represented in this game actually do?

Well, they helped supply their allies, they defended their home territory against all comers and they occasionally went on ill-advised adventures. So, to a gamer that might sound like 2 rules and a bunch of special event cards. But no, in this game it involves pages and pages of faction specific rules, modifiers, special rules, charts, cards, leaders, chits, markers, prerequisites, exceptions to the special rules, optional rules, some more charts and a sub-system or two. At some point, it's enough.

Chaos truly did triumph in this game."

Ostatnia uwaga jest właśnie najważniejsza. Wpakowali 18 małoznaczących frakcji i gracz musi się tym babrać. Jak ktoś kiedyś napisał, gdyby to wyrzucić, gra toczyłaby się płynnie i nikt by tego nie zauważył. Reds jest niezastąpione jednak .

Podsumowując gra NIE-zalecana przez lobby-antydłubaninowe .

[Strategos]

Nico lepiej zacytuj te entuzjastyczne komentarze . Przypadkowo wiem od And,ego ,że dużo jest ocen skrajnych .
Pomysł z kartami politycznymi i " konkursem Eurowizji" czyli przesuwaniem w specjalnej tabelce żetonów wływów w poszczególnych frakcjach w związku z uzbieranymi punkcikami z kart jest znakomity . Ci co twierdzą inaczej, po prostu boją się ,jak ognia, komplikacji ( jacyś zwolennicy Eurogier pewnie )

[Nico]

Entuzjastyczne są bez uzasadnień w większości . Zresztą nawet Waterloo dragona ma swoich entuzjastów ... więc zawsze jacyś amatorzy dłubanin-bezsensownych się znajdą .

Owszem sama idea frakcji jest ciekawa, tylko mało realistyczna, bo te marginesowe partyjki miały znikomy wpływ na wojnę, a czas który gracz poświęca na przesuwanie żetoników na torach w tą i z powrotem jest właśnie nie proporcjonalny do ich znaczenia. Równie dobrze można by przesuwać znaczniki wpływów Unii i Konfederacji na różne szczepy indian Cherokee. Tylko po co, skoro miało to żadne znaczenie w skali wojny w jaką gramy na mapie. Sztuka dla sztuki, która pożera mnóstwo czasu i nic nie wnosi.

Co powiesz o a-historycznym setupie w Finlandii ?

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"Ambitious design but game is really fiddly with too many factions and too many things to keep track. I can handle complex game but resent too many book keeping. Lots of historical flavour but overloaded with unnecessary chromes which bog down the game. Beautiful counters and map is the saving grace though. "

"great components but poor game : rules are much too complex : there is no fun as you always need to find something in the rule to be sure that you can play that way or the other way..

cards are the same : you can play A if C was played according to rule 22.6.3. Effect of A are doubled if D was played before A. etc. "

"I bought it because I was interested in the subject. I study some law, but whoever wrote these rules, I must say was in a different state of mind from how I can perceive the rules. "

"Absolutely fabulous looking game, both map and counters.....but my gaming partner and I both struggled with the rules which are poorly organised over two books. Game definitely has its roots in PoG, but we spent most of the time with heads in the rule book rather than playing the game.
It does have some really good ideas tho'. Just abit like hard work. GMT's Reds probably a cleaner game on the subject. "

[Strategos]

Powiem jak pogram

[Nico]

Druga najważniejsza wada tej gry. Rozegrać się jej nie da zbytnio .

[Strategos]

Ech, Nico i ja możemy rozegrać zasadniczo każdą grę .Nie chce nam się tylko grać w gry ,w których czeka się na ruch przeciwnika godzinkę

[Nico]

No właśnie, nic dodać, nic ująć. Grać tylko w Redsy .

[Strategos]

Stawiasz mnie w trudnym położeniu bo Reds uważam za świetną grę

[Nico]

Stawiasz mnie w trudnym położeniu bo Reds uważam za świetną grę

Dokładnie o to chodziło . Są świetne gry jak Reds i niegrywalne dłubaniny jak ToCh ;P.

[Andy]

"After more than 300 wargames played (many monster-games, more than 100 ASL scenarios...) I can say that this game is one of the 10 games to save in case of.... nuclear holocaust!"

"I don’t give 10’s out often but if there were room for an "11" this game would get it. Fun, playable and tense. The historic situation is perfect for a card driven game. The components are top notch and presents and plays beautifully."

"The most beautiful game in my collection. The level of history is amazing. It's hard to play, but well worth the effort. "

"I've waited thirty years for this game! The greatest wargame of all time!!"

"The game that brought me back to boardgames after a decade or so. Excellent."

"Excellent game on a extraordinarily rich topic, efficient and enjoyable system governing both political and military action, wide variety of possible outcomes, elegant art. "

"Excellent game with many options & strategies which have to evolve every turn due to the chaotic historical situation. The artwork is beautiful. The designer clearly made a lot of research. Congrats.
UPDATE : I have raised my rating. This is my most played game of 2006 & I had fun every time I played it."

[Nico]

"I've waited thirty years for this game! The greatest wargame of all time!!"

Szkoda, że bez uzasadnień - fajne bo ... fajne . Krytyka zaś jest konkretna, rzeczowa i niszcząca.

Co do tej historyczności to jak się ona ma do setupu 'finlandzkiego'?