V4V

[morvael]

Czy byliby jacyś chętni do zrobienia np. bitwy mławskiej 1939 w V4V?

Przydała by się praca nad mapą, wyszło mi że jest to jakieś 54 arkusze A4 do rozrysowania tej mapy i jest to trochę dużo jak na jedną osobę. Poza tym nie mam dobrych materiałów, najlepsze by były mapy WIGu 1:100000...

Dodam link do właściwego wątku: http://www.phpbbserver.com/phpbb/viewto ... =strategie

[kru]

Niech ktoś zrobi Wielkie Łuki w systemie B35... Bardzo chętnie kupię To bardzo fajny scenariusz, z obroną miasta-twierdzy i próbami jej odbicia.

Tylko nie B-35, please.
Wielkie Luki to bardzo fajna gra w V4V. Ale jesli przekonwertujesz to na system B-35, to wyjdzie zupejnie co innego i gra sie zepsuje.

[kru]

Odnosnie tych stworzonych zasad co podales w poscie, to sam je zrobiles?? Czy moze wykozystales juz istniejace i tylko troche zmodyfikowales

[Raleen]

Wykorzystał po części istniejące, po części sam, po cześci z innych gier. Całośc sam zrobił. To już dawno temu, bo ja je jeszcze z kiedyś pamiętam, choc wtedy żałuję, że się nie zainteresowałem.

[kru]

W sumie to nawet niezle wyglada
Postaram sie temu dobrze przyjrzec.

[kru]

Hehe, jak najbardziej ...

Zastanawiam sie czy tabelki zrobiles swoje czy wykorzystales informacje z V4V

Jeszcze wczesnie napisales ze to kolejny krok ewolucji, zgadzam sie z toba tylko ze ten krok zostal juz wykonany. Jak dla mnie V4V zawsze pozostanie w pamieci i zawsze bede do tej gry wracal. A wiele rozwiazan mozna tu wykozystac bo sa wrecz rewlacyjne.

Jesli kogos interesuje rozgrywka, to nie dokladnie pamietam ale w ta gre mozna grac online, tak jak poprzez linka. A nie tylko pbem.

[Mariusz]

Ja się zastanawiam czemu np. w miescie i terenie zabudowanym moze stac więcej wojska, tak jest chyba z V4V

Dla mnie to troche nielogiczne bo w miescie nie mozna z reguly walczyc na dużą odległosc więc możliwości walki są bardziej ograniczone czyli mniej wojsk powinno móc walczyc, jak uważacie?

[kru]

Niekoniecznie, daj jakis konkretny przyklad albo zdjecie. Jak znam V4V to rzadko sie z czyms takim spotkalem, glównie tak sie pojawialo kiedy pod naporem przeciwnika oddzialy nie mialy gdzie uciec. Ale to sytuacja wyjatkowa. Poza tym zauwaz ze w wielkim miescie jest wiecej miejsca niz w polu. Budynki, piwnice.

[morvael]

Odnosnie tych stworzonych zasad co podales w poscie, to sam je zrobiles?? Czy moze wykozystales juz istniejace i tylko troche zmodyfikowales.

No jak widać jest to inspirowane V4V i B35, nie wiem w sumie czego jest więcej (mniej więcej pół na pół myślę). Adaptacja jest moja. Jak praca magisterska - z jednego źródła to plagiat ale z dwóch to już twórcza praca

[morvael]

Ja się zastanawiam czemu np. w miescie i terenie zabudowanym moze stac więcej wojska, tak jest chyba z V4V

Dla mnie to troche nielogiczne bo w miescie nie mozna z reguly walczyc na dużą odległosc więc możliwości walki są bardziej ograniczone czyli mniej wojsk powinno móc walczyc, jak uważacie?

Tak jest z V4V. Przytoczę tekst z instrukcji angielskiej bo nie chce mi się z polskiej przepisywać uzasadnienia:

Kod: Zaznacz cały

Stacking
More than one unit may be located in a given hex at the
same time. However, such a "stack" may contain units
from only one side; German and Allied units never stack
together.
For most of the hexes on the map, the maximum "stacking limit"
is 3 battalions, out of which a normal maximum of 2 battalions
may use their full attack or defense strengths to participate in
combat with enemy units in an adjacent hex. City and invasion
beach hexes have a higher stacking limit of 4 battalions
maximum, out of which 2 battalions plus 2 companies may use
their full attack or defense strengths to participate in combat
with enemy units in an adjacent hex.
For stacking limit purposes, each company counts as 1/3 of a
battalion, and each HQ unit counts as 1 battalion.
These stacking limits are derived from the standard "frontages"
(or widths of assigned sectors along the front line) of battalion–
sized units in WWII. In World War II armies, official doctrines
called for an infantry battalion to defend about a 1–kilometer
segment of the front line. On the attack, the doctrines called for
that same battalion to be responsible for less frontage, typically
about half a kilometer. Real–life deviations from these official
doctrines were almost always in the direction of more frontage
being assigned to a unit, not less (since no army ever had enough
men or battalions to do everything as it would have liked). It
quickly follows that, based on doctrines as well as real
experience, the normal maximum density of front–line combat
units in WWII was one–half of a kilometer per battalion (or 2
battalions per kilometer).
If half a kilometer was the normal minimum frontage for a
battalion, there was no corresponding maximum frontage. Given
good visibility and prepared positions, most infantry battalions
were able to adequately defend a frontage of 2–3 kilometers.
Frontages greater than 3 kilometers per battalion normally
required breaking the battalion down into companies and
spreading them out, which was often done, but the result was little
more than a picket or outpost line, easily breached by a
concentrated enemy. In the game, the zones of control are
designed to safely extend a battalion's frontage to 3 kilometers
(i.e., the hex it's in plus the one on either side), under favorable
visibility and terrain conditions.
Commemorative Collextion Reference Manual 71
The third battalion that is allowed in most hexes would (in real
life) usually have to be located in the rear of the hex behind the
other two battalions, since there would be no room for it on the
front line. Therefore (despite orders or assigned actions), units
stacked in excess of two–thirds of the stacking limit do not
participate fully in combat unless:
1. The extra unit is an artillery unit, in which case it may
conduct fire missions normally;
2. The hex is subject to an artillery, air, or naval attack, in
which case that attack may affect any or all of the units in
the hex;
3. The combat results in an advance, in which case the entire
stack may advance;
4. The combat results in a retreat, in which case the entire
stack must either retreat or suffer additional losses.
The stacking limit has no effect on zones of control; a unit that
does not participate fully in combat due to the size of its stack
still exerts its normal zone of control. This is because, in real
life, such units would probably be "spread out" into adjacent hexes
just like all the other units in the stack.
As explained in the section on terrain, beach bunkers and
ordinary beach hexes have a lower stacking limit (2 battalions
maximum) because most of the time these hexes represent fewer
acres of ground. Cities have a higher stacking limit (4 battalions
maximum) because the abundance of excellent cover there
requires more men to attack or defend an area of a given size.
Invasion beach hexes have a higher stacking limit (also 4
battalions) because of the very large American infrastructure
that was located there. In each case, the same 2:1 proportion is
used for the number of "front–line" vs. "rear–area" units allowed
to be in the hex, with the result that, in a city hex, a maximum of 2
battalions plus 2 companies may use their full attack or defense
strengths to participate in combat with enemy units in an
adjacent hex.
In addition to the historically–based stacking limits described
above, the game also has an upper limit of 9 different units (of any
size) that may be located in each hex at once. This "software"
limit is high enough so that, for almost all the hexes on the map,
the historical stacking limit is reached first, even when the stack
72 Reference Manual Commemorative Collection
is composed entirely of companies. However, in city hexes (where
the stacking limit is 4 battalions) the software limit can take
precedence over the historical stacking limit, with the result that
the game limits stacks in city hexes to 9 total units. Our advice
(which fortunately corresponds to good play) is to try to keep
more battalions than companies in your larger stacks in city and
invasion beach hexes.
The stacking limits in most WWII wargames apply only at the end
of the movement phase, thus permitting players to ignore
stacking limits during their movement. While that may be a
reasonable and necessary convenience in a board wargame, it
also provides players with an unrealistic degree of flexibility
compared to real–life commanders. In reality, strict traffic
control is a necessity for any large military operation, because
moving units through each other too frequently or having too
many of them in the same place at the same time causes serious
problems (such as incredible traffic jams, increased vulnerability
to enemy attack, slower and less efficient movement for
everyone, etc.). For this reason, the rear area is always
partitioned into sectors just like the front line, and generals
throughout history have gotten into arguments with each other
about whose units were assigned to use this road or that assembly
area.
Unlike most other wargames, in the Commemorative
Collection™ games the stacking limits apply and are enforced at
all times during the game, including during the resolution of
movement and combat. A unit may be assigned orders to move to
a hex that is occupied by enemy units, blocked by enemy zones of
control, or is already at the stacking limit, but if, when resolving
the movement, the time comes for a unit to enter such a hex, its
movement is delayed until it becomes possible (or until the turn
ends). Therefore, players who plan the movement and stacking of
their units and who try to conduct their operations in a realistic
way fare better than those who don't. The latter may quickly find
themselves suffering from an authentic case of "military
gridlock."

Oczywiście w planszówce musiałem część wyrzucić z tych zasad... Ale ogólnie uzasadnienia są tutaj całkiem logiczne, dlaczego takie a nie inne limity.

[morvael]

W sumie to nawet niezle wyglada
Postaram sie temu dobrze przyjrzec.

Jak byś chciał to mam dane (tabelki) wojsk do scenariusza Ancona z B35. Planowałem to przerobić kiedyś bo to mały scenariusz, w miarę się nadający na takie wprowadzenie do systemu.

[kru]

A czy masz cala instrukcje do V4V? Jesli tak do podeslij mi na maila.
Jesli zas chodzi o B-35 to system ten nie jest moim faworytem, ale tabelkom sie przyjrze. Dzieki.

[morvael]

A czy masz cala instrukcje do V4V? Jesli tak do podeslij mi na maila.
Jesli zas chodzi o B-35 to system ten nie jest moim faworytem, ale tabelkom sie przyjrze. Dzieki.

http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=1219
Pobierz "manual".

Co do drugiego to miałem na myśli tabelki przeniesione już do mojego własnego systemu. Jutro może je przygotuję i wrzucę na serwer.

[PProteus]

hej morvael

zarzuciles swoj projekt?
szkoda by bylo.
daj znac czy cos dzialasz jeszcze w tym temacie i czy mozna liczyc, ze udostepnisz swoja prace szerszym masa

[Witold Janik]

Tak, partyjki w V4V będę pamiętał do końca życia . Nie ma chyba lepiej dopracowanej strategii w takiej skali. I nie wiem czy będzie (te limity zaopatrzenia co do tony!). Żałuję, że nie było edytora scenariuszy i "świata", wiele razy myślałem jakby wyglądała kampania wrześniowa w tym systemie...