Field of Glory - przykładowe strony

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kadrinazi
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Post autor: kadrinazi »

Czytam sobie na WABlist opinie ludzi którzy grali w gry pokazowe i chyba się jednak na FOG chwilowo nie skuszę (chyba że dla grafiki :)). Z relacji wynika, że gra jest bardzo pod 15 mm (to mi akurat nie przeszkadza, armie antycznie mam i tak w 20 mm) i bliżej jej do DBx (wystawianie armii, sposób rozgrywki). Jakoś WAB i Crusader mi wystarczą... tyle tylko że poziom wydania podręcznika FOG kusi :wink:
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Bogus_law
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Post autor: Bogus_law »

Edytorsko pewnie będzie bardzo ładne, ale obawiam się że będzie to odpowiednik Flames od War dla antyku a to mi raczej średnio odpowiada.
FoG jest DBxowaty to tow koncu DBx next generation. Recenzja :
A Review of Field of Glory

Introduction

Field of Glory (FoG) is a new set of rules for fighting battles with ancient armies (i.e. armies with before the invention of muskets). The principal rule designer is Richard Bodley Scott. Richard and Phil Barker designed a previous set of rules for ancients called DBM. However, they went separate ways in designing a successor to DBM, because of differences in design philosophy. Phil has created DBMM, while Richard has created FOG.

FoG is still being play tested. However, the rules are almost completed and the rule book is due to be published in February 2008. Sample pages of the rule book and army lists books can be found on the internet at URL http://www.fieldofglory.com/ , which also links you through to a forum. The rule book and army lists are going to be published by Ospey. It is clear the production value is going to be far superior to both DBM and DBMM.

Battle Groups

Enough of the background, on to the rules. The first major change that ex-DBM players will notice is in FoG you have units, which are called battle groups. Battle groups usually consist between 4 and 12 bases of figures (there are some exceptions, such as: elephants, war wagons, and artillery which can have battle groups of just two bases) usually all of the same type.

Movement

Another significant difference ex-DBM players will notice is you do not have pips. Instead all battle groups get to move once in every manoeuvre phase. A battle group can move twice in a manoeuvre phase if it has a general with it, or if it is part of a battle line (a battle line is several battle groups of infantry or cavalry, but not combination of both, that form a single line) that has a general with it, if none of the bases start or end their movement within 6 inches of any enemy base.

Lining up troops in FOG is much easier, you don’t get the geometric tactics that you do in DBM. The reason for this is because of a FoG’s confirming rules and the ability to shift a battle group up to a base width sideways if it moved its full distance straight ahead or up to half a base width sideways to avoid clipping terrain.

Combat

Combat is done by battle group, not base by base as it is DBM. There are three stages to combats. The same process is used for the Impact, Shooting and Melee Phases.

First, you determine how many hits your battle groups inflict. For knights (only on horse back), elephants, all chariots and artillery you roll two six sided die per base in the front rank, for all other troop types you roll one six sided die per base in the first and second rank, to determine how many hits your battle group inflicts on the opposing battle group. You need roll a 4 or higher to hit. This is modified by the weapons your troops are using and your opponent’s troop’s armour. You use a chart to workout what your troop’s Point of Advantage (POA) is. This determines how much your troops and your opponent’s troops die rolls are modified by. There are also different grades of troops - poor, average, superior and elite. Poor troops re-roll 6’s (i.e. hits), average troops don’t have any re-rolls, superior troops re-roll 1 (i.e. misses) and elite troops re-roll 1 and 2’s (i.e. misses).

Second, each battle group makes a cohesion test to determine if they drop a cohesion level, if necessary (this is determined by how many hits they receive). There are three levels of cohesion - normal, disrupted or fragmented. A fragmented unit that fails a cohesion test routs.

Third, each battle group makes a death roll to see if any bases have been eliminated if necessary (this is determined by how many hits they receive).

It may seem complex and to involve allot of die rolls, but this impression is wrong. The process is straight forward and is assisted greatly by a very clearly laid out quick play sheet. The POA mechanism works well and deals with more complex interactions than in both DBM and DBMM, using a simpler method. As for making masses of die rolls, with FoG you roll the same number of dice but all once, instead of base by base as in DBM and DBMM.

Turns

As in DBM and DBMM one player has a turn and then the other player his and so on. You have different phases though.

The first phase is the Impact Phase. This is the only phase in which your battle groups can conduct charges. Enemy skirmishers (i.e. light foot, light horse and cavalry in a single line) can choose evade, but both the charger’s and evader’s moves are variable, so battle groups that evade risk not going far enough and being charged in the rear. Charges can be intercepted in some cases.

The second phase is the Manoeuvre Phase. Any battle groups that did not charge or intercept can make a normal movement. If a battle group wants to do more than just wheel, depending on its type (the types are - skirmishers, drilled, undrilled cavalry and light chariots, or other undrilled) it will have to make a test to see if it can do a complex move.

The third phase is the Shooting Phase. All battle groups that can shoot and have eligible targets do so.

The fourth phase is the Melee Phase. This is when battle groups that charged this turn conform. Opposing battle groups in base to base contact then conduct hand to hand combat, even if they have already fought in the impact phase.

The fifth and last phase is the Joint Action Phase. Battle groups containing light horse, cavalry and knights that are in combat with steady infantry must break off. They move straight backwards their normal distance. Battle groups that are pursuing or routing make tests to stop doing so. Generals on both sides can move (your generals can also move in the manoeuvre phase of your turn). Your generals can attempt to bolster the cohesion of level of battle groups they are attached to or rally battle groups that are routing that they attached to. Routing and pursuing battle groups move.

Generals

Generals also operate differently in FoG. They are not attached to a particular command and battle groups are not grouped into commands. Generals’ bases are not treated as bases. Instead, a general’s base represents just the general, his staff and his immediate bodyguard. A general is killed if his base is contacted by any enemy base, if it is not attached to a friendly battle group.

In FOG generals do the following:
• allow battle groups and battle lines move a second time, if they are attached to them;
• increase the chance that battle groups can do a complex moves, if the battle groups are in their command radius;
• increase the chance of a battle group passing a cohesion test, if attached to the battle group;
• can attempt to bolster a battle group’s cohesion, if attached to the battle group and the battle group is disrupted or fragmented;
• can attempt to rally a routing battle group, if attached to it;
• if in the frontline of a battle group in combat they increase the battle group’s grade by one level e.g. an average battle group becomes superior, a superior battle group becomes elite. However, you have to roll to determine if general is killed at the end of every round of combat.

Skirmishers

Skirmishers (including light foot armed with bows, slings or javelins) shoot, they do not charge into base to base contact with enemy battle groups that are non-skirmishers. Their role is to use their shooting to lower the cohesion level of enemy battle groups, so they are less able to withstand your other battle groups. Skirmishers only engage in hand to hand combat with non-skirmishers if they cannot avoid it (e.g. they are caught in the rear when they attempt to evade) or if an enemy battle group is so weak they can easily take it on. Cavalry in a single line can choose to skirmish or face charges.

Troop Characteristics

In FoG troops have seven different characteristics, which I have listed below

• Type (e.g. knight, cavalry, heavy foot, light foot etc) – this determines their rate of movement and the affect terrain has on them in combat.
• Quality (i.e. poor, average, superior or elite) – this determines if they get to re-roll both cohesion tests and to hit rolls, see above.
• Training – This either drilled or undrilled. Drilled troop can do more maneuvers than undrilled troops of the same troop type without having to make complex move tests.
• Armour (i.e. unprotected, protected, armoured, heavily armoured) – modifies the affects of your opponent’s weapons.
• Shooting POA – the type of weapon they use for shooting. The type weapon determines the point of advantage they have when shooting.
• Impact POA - the type of weapon they use in the impact phase. The type weapon determines the point of advantage they have in the impact phase.
• Melee POA - the type of weapon they use in the melee phase. The type weapon determines the point of advantage they have in the impact phase.

A couple of examples:

1. I have some feudal men-at-arms in my Medieval German army. They are classified as knights, who are superior, they are undrilled, heavily armoured, cannot shoot, use lances in the impact phase and in the melee phase are normal swordsman. They cost 23 points per element.

2. I have some crossbowmen in the same Medieval German army. They are classified as medium infantry, who are average, are drilled, protected, shoot crossbows, have no weapons they can use in either the impact or melee phase. They cost 7 points per element.

Auto Break Points

All battle groups have an auto break point, which is determined by the grade of the troops in it. Once a battle group has lost this percentage of bases it automatically breaks and can never be rallied. For example, a battle group containing average grade troops has an auto break point of greater than 40%.

Winning Battles

An army breaks when the amount of attrition points it has accumulated is equal to, or greater than, the number of battle groups it began the battle with. An army suffers:

• 2 attrition points for each battle group that is routed.
• 1 attrition point for each battle group straggling or evaded off the table.
• 1 attrition point for each battle group that is currently fragmented.
• 2 attrition points for having a camp stacked.

The effect is once you have lost half of battle groups in your army it breaks.

Overall Assessment of FoG

FoG is a very good set of rules. It is not until you have played a couple of games you recognise how good the rules are.

It is not one or two major things that make FoG a good set of rules, it is an accumulation of small things. Among other things, The rules are written in a manner that is easily understood and are laid out in a logical way e.g. all rules to do with movement are in the chapter dealing with movement. The rule mechanisms are straight forward and logical. Troop types are far more balanced than DBM and DBMM. The doubling of points cost (a normal size army cost 800 points in FoG, instead of 400 points as in DBM and DBMM) helped this, it means a more nuanced differentiation can be made between different troop types. The mechanisms (such as skirmishers shooting and cohesion levels) provide a better 'feel' to battles and reward players who use troops as they were used historically. The factors (called points of advantage in FoG) are much easier to work out than in DBM and DBMM, but deal with more complex interactions.

I predict the combination of high production values, and easily read and understood rules, will make FoG accessible and popular with younger players.

To sum up, FoG is a very good set of rules and I predict it will do for the ancient’s period what Flames of War has done for World War Two period i.e. make ancients popular with younger players and considerably increasing the number of people playing ancients. This has been achieved without dumbing down the game, so it will also appeal to experienced players. I congratulate the rule designers for achieving this.
Żrodełko :
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4780
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Gilgamesh44
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Post autor: Gilgamesh44 »

Wygląda bardziej na następna [de]generację DBx. ;]
Nie rozumiem tego modnego pędu do rezygnowania z czynnika dowodzenia w mechanikach. Akurat PIP są fajnym elementem DBx. Brak czynnika dowodzenia w zupełności nie przeszkadza w WAB gdzie są reguły psychology i leadership, ale wywalanie go z abstrakcyjnego DBx robi z gry figurkowe warcaby.

No, ale to produkt sygnowany przez Slytherin, twórcę mocno średniego Chariots of War.

Grywalność pewnie wykluczy się z realizmem.
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kadrinazi
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Post autor: kadrinazi »

Znaczy się - kolejna ładna książka na półkę z grami :wink:
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godlewski5
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Post autor: godlewski5 »

Powinno być coś na forum, jakieś raporty z bitew w Australii, gdzieś widziałem, jak znajdę to wkleję. Taki opis jak to się sprawdza w grze jest jednak najlepszy.
"Lekarze zapisują lekarstwa, o których niewiele wiedzą, na choroby, o których wiedzą jeszcze mniej, ludziom, o których nie wiedzą nic." - Voltaire
Bogus_law
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Post autor: Bogus_law »

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AWu
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Post autor: AWu »

zobaczymy

ja jestem bardzo na tak jesli chodzi o DBXa

jako ze nie ma tu turniejow
i raczej nie bede grywal (jak zaczne) bardzo ahistorycznych gier
to wszystkie zarzutu mnie mijaja istotne chyba

FOGa na pewno obejze

ale nie przesadzalbym z tym FOWem

FOWem ancientowym to jest jednak WAb chyba bardziej ;>
(chyba ze wysoka jakosc edytorska uznajesz za FOWizm - ale wtedy mi to za grosz nie przeszkadza)

co mi sie w FOWie nie podoba
to masa kostek
zniechecily mnie do WMA

ale to moje zboczenie
nie lubie wiaderkami rzucac
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kadrinazi
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Post autor: kadrinazi »

Kolejny komentarz gracza:

Well with all the hype about FOG on TMP, I checked it out with a demo
in Plymouth UK at the PAW show.

It struck me as very interesting and pretty clever ... definite strong
elements of WAB in there and 6th Edition plus a good helping of DBM.
This is what I can remember (I'm still recovering from the Flu)
although I'm sure I've missed a dozen intricacies.

The turn sequence is very familiar, standard IGOUGO with charge, move,
missile and melee sequences. All troops can move (no PiPs) but what
they can do depends on what they are. Skirmishers can almost do what
they b****y well like, Drilled may do many maneuvers and lesser troops
are more limited in what they can do. Some maneuvers are automatic,
others needed to be tested for.

I had a look at the mechanisms which reminded me of a bizzarre mix of
WAB and DBM. Your chances of a hit depends upon if your troop type is
advantaged (+) or disadvantaged (-) against a certain troop type cross
referenced on a table. So a ++ missile type would mean you get
something like a 3+ to hit against certain troop types while a --
means you need a 6. Trooops are either good at missile, the charge
impact (impetus) or melee but naturally nothing is good at everything.

Hits are applied by battle groups on enemy groups. Units which are
damaged are less effective at fighting (a nice touch, but WAB has this
in rank bonus).

Overall it looks a good game. There's a lot to rememeber - it won't be
an instinctive game like WAB and a chart will be essential. Some may
be able to memorise the myriad of permutations and combination but
I'll be needing to stick to the chart if and when I play it.

Will it replace my WAB playing? WAB IMHO is the simpler game but I've
played it for a few years now, I know what needs 3's to hit without
looking at a table. But nevertheless it looks like a product which I
can use to play my non WAB playing wargaming mates.

I'm looking at it as a comliment to WAB, not a rival. This will
admittedly do some things better than WAB, but WAB will in turn do
some things better than FOG.
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